The Transaction

TT - 039 - Dia Bondi - Full Episode v1
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Dia Bondi: [00:00:00] Powerful communication isn't just about being skillful.

It's about making a choice to recognize that your leadership voice is a strategic tool.

Founders are always going into conversations that are bigger than their britches.

Spending time developing your unique, point of view in the world, investing in your leadership narrative will help answer the question, how do I be more authentic?

Craig comes Straight Outta Compton
---

Craig Rosenberg: I Noticed that my, when

I was wearing a hat in the, uh, John Common episode, that the hat highlights worked really well. Is that a true statement? I have a great hat. Can I wear this hat

today?

Matt Amundson: Oh yeah. Okay. That

Dia Bondi: What does it say? Compton?

Craig Rosenberg: how about

that? Okay.

Fun Facts about Dia Bondi, Matt, & Softball
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Craig Rosenberg: I got two fun facts [00:01:00] for you guys. One is you guys are connected in a, in a weird

way. Because Matt's wife is a famed softball player and now coach.

He coaches at Cal

State East Bay.

Dia Bondi: Let's go.

Craig Rosenberg: daughter is like a, uh, top softball player in Northern

California. And, uh,

Dia Bondi: She likes to smash and get paid.

Craig Rosenberg: so that's,

Matt Amundson: who does she play

for

Dia Bondi: Well, she plays for Warriors

Matt Amundson: Okay. Okay.

Dia Bondi: with the McDonald's families and we and me and Craig had a weird connection too that we got introduced through an obscure connection And then we were shooting the shit turns out that is your son is besties with one of my daughter's teammates little brother

Matt Amundson: Whoa.

Dia Bondi: So crazy. Yeah, so she wants to be a softballer, man. She wants to go, she wants to play for a power five school She wants to do all the things, you know, she wants to, she's a student athlete [00:02:00] and you know

Trying to help her get there, being the best athlete mom I can

Matt Amundson: That's great. Yeah. My wife, uh, my wife played

at UCLA. She won a

couple

Dia Bondi: Let's go. That's what,

Craig Rosenberg: of the greatest players in UCLA history. I know you, you don't

want to say it, but without a

Matt Amundson: That is

Dia Bondi: let's

Matt Amundson: that is true.

Dia Bondi: Yeah, AJ would, she would,

she would like to play for UCLA,

obviously.

Matt Amundson: she, has memorialized at Easton stadium in a few places.

Dia Bondi: that's so cool.

Matt Amundson: yeah.

It's

Craig Rosenberg: amazing video of

Claire in high school on the TV. Remember who was she hitting off of, Matt? It was incredible.

Matt Amundson: Oh yeah. It's, uh, what's his name? The, the

sports, uh, yeah. Dan

Levitard. Levitard.

Yeah.

Dia Bondi: one more fun fact for softball is the game has changed a lot since your wife was playing in college. Nigeri Kennedy was pitching for, she was pitching for Stanford and just went into the portal and secured herself a 1. 2 million dollar NIL deal and now is at Texas.

Tech or A& M. Just [00:03:00] saying, like, my daughter's softball experience will be basically semi, a semi pro experience. She will not have a college experience. It's changing every year. It's more and more different.

It's

Craig Rosenberg: is a good fun fact.

Matt Amundson: Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Dia Bondi: Not that she's going to be securing an NIL deal worth 1. 4, but I'm just saying that, like, it, the sport is growing.

And so your wife, I hope she's enjoying that, you know.

For

Craig Rosenberg: All right,

Dia Bondi: Okay, Craig. Sorry, but over to you, Craig.

Craig Rosenberg: yeah, we do have to do a business part of the show. But I have to ask you this. So is, you're the most energetic person that I've ever run

into.

Dia Bondi: Holy shit. That's a compliment. Cause I tell you what I'm 50 and I feel

Craig Rosenberg: Really? It doesn't

seem like it.

Dia Bondi: Yes,

that's that, uh, everything I've seen of you, right? Because I've been watching the

Craig Rosenberg: videos and then I, I met you.

Dia Bondi: Are you watching my walk and talks where I look junkie and I'm just out walking my dog. You've been watching

Craig Rosenberg: You're real. You're keeping, yeah,

Dia Bondi: I'm out, you know,

you know, I'm out there in nature doing my nature

Craig Rosenberg: so we're not gonna have a problem with Dia getting excited for our [00:04:00] podcast, even though, like, she'd not met Matt, you know, all this stuff, it's like, she's gonna come in hot, so that, that is a given.

Alright, so look, here's the deal.

Introducing Dia Bondi
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Craig Rosenberg: So, here's how I met Dia. I had, I think, one or two referrals to her, and I was telling Dia, I don't do the, everyone sends me people all the time, and I'm like, you know, I don't know. And then, um, but when I was, the person I referred was, is really credible. Like she never referred to anybody.

I have a couple people that send people to me all the time. I'm like, bro, you're gonna have to cut this off. And then I went and watched the Ted videos and I'm like, oh my God, this, this woman's insane, incredible. And then I met, then I met her on the phone and I'm like, oh my God, I got to do something with her.

What? Two weeks later, we bring her in. For a workshop which Matt was supposed to come to but claims it wasn't on his calendar and then yeah Well, we

thought yeah, Sam, you gotta work on

Dia Bondi: We didn't mean to leave you out,

Matt. I hope you

don't feel left

Matt Amundson: I got

Craig Rosenberg: [00:05:00] loved it. it. was it was awesome.

Dia Bondi: We had so much

fun. It was super informal. We did, you know, I think of it as like a lunch and learn or a brown bag. It was like that. And it was

Craig Rosenberg: so so today's Bondi first of all, it's an amazing name for a

superstar like

Dia Bondi: to do with

it, but

Craig Rosenberg: if you

wanted to be a pop star, you'd be in really good shape, like you wouldn't have to do anything to your, you know, A, your persona, or B, your name, like you're in good shape.

Yeah,

Dia Bondi: Thank you

I feel locally famous.

Craig Rosenberg: You are. so, uh, Dia has, is an author, has a, has a business, has tons of content that everyone should check out. And, um, it's really like around founder executive, uh, executives and how they communicate. And, but the, uh, but the methodology when you watch or listen to her, it applies to a lot of different use cases.

And that's. That's what's amazing. But like if, if I had to just sum it up in one word, we're talking about [00:06:00] how like you advise founders and lead executives on how they could communicate internally and externally in a compelling way. Is that

easy?

Dia Bondi: You nailed

Craig Rosenberg: as you guys can already tell, when you meet her, you're like, well, she doesn't need any training.

I mean, this is like unbelievable. Like, I don't know if you do like energy

infusions for the founders.

Dia Bondi: I don't know. You need to bring those expectations way down so that I can, so I can show off. Like the more you lift them up, the more work you're making me do

Craig Rosenberg: it. So anyway, I'm really, really excited to have you Dia on the show. It's, it's, it's like, it, it's

really cool. And I just, I know that you're gonna bring it, we already have, even in our 15 minutes of chit chat, is like worthy of being produced on the

pod, so thank you. for coming on.

Dia Bondi: thank you. Well, listen, it was an easy yes for me when you invited me knowing that, you know, this is all about go to market and, you know, getting traction. Is that right? I've watched a few of the episodes and, and you, you know, I've talked to, [00:07:00] um, your, you know,

and in and around your platform. role, um, and like, yes, I want to help founders and, uh, executives speak powerfully, be compelling, but it's sort of like, for what?

And for me, it's so that they can align and activate people around what they're doing so that they can, you know, secure decisions and resources they need to move their businesses, their initiatives forward. Um, it's not just for the sake of, of, of looking great and smelling great. It's about moving things

forward.

Craig Rosenberg: You know, uh, we have this question that we start every show with, but Matt. I think it was last show jumped in and said he it created great content. You did. It's actually I have it on tape. Yeah. Yeah, it was great. And so I'm going to I'm going to try it on Dia, which is like before we start like getting in the meat, like, can you like, what's this?

Like, I would love to hear a story because Her stories were amazing in the workshop, but like [00:08:00] where you took an executive who had no hope on the communication front and like you turned him or her around and what did it become? And I just, if you have any fun stories around that, I'd love to start with that.

See, Matt, I learned from you on that last

Matt Amundson: It's great. Look at this.

Growth.

Dia Bondi: oh man, it's

The Impact of Establishing Your Voice
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Dia Bondi: so I've been doing this for about 22 years, and I've clocked that I've I've done I've executed probably up to upwards of 8, 000 private coaching sessions And so whether that's in event prep or helping people with a bit I helped Rio de Janeiro win the right to host the 2016 Olympics and and that was like a lot of leaders that needed to Do you know?

Very specific, highly controlled, produced kind of leadership communications moments. Um, worked on product launches for big SaaS companies. I worked with somebody who's recently stepped up into their role and needs to, like, establish their voice in their domain and their market. I mean, there's, like, there's so many to choose from.

Um, but one I could pick [00:09:00] that happened, um, Year before last This isn't a founder, but I gotta say that I do think when I work with executives internally I like to treat them like founders of their own initiatives like they're having a like, you know,

Craig Rosenberg: absolutely.

Dia Bondi: And even VCs that work with me who are like putting together their own fund.

I mean, they're the, they're an entrepreneur for their own fund. Um, they're fundraising, they're in, in, you know, conversations and negotiations all day long. Anyway, actually, this guy, his, his manager, I'm going to say his manager. He, he was a senior guy, VP level, but his, his, Sideways manager, um, reached out to me and said, Hey, we have a really big stage moment coming up for a large product launch at a very significant corporate event that will eventually make its way on a tour.

And,

um, this leader is, uh, is, um, struggling to get to, to establish his voice [00:10:00] internally. We're going to use this external facing moment as a way for him to really Catalyze his voice on a stage that is outward facing but will be symbolic for helping him Establish his voice internally and so we worked together and it was a short as a small sprint, right?

And that day when he got up on stage, he just instantly Absolutely slayed. Like, so completely absolutely slayed that the hosting CEO of that event, who is somebody everybody would recognize their name, that name is on buildings all over the country, all over this country, um, said, Hey, that was, who's

that

guy? You know? Yeah. And, and for me, It's like, it's such a win, not because like, oh, he did a great job and he had, you know, he really executed well in that moment, but what was more important is like, what it meant for the long tail of his career, you know? Because it's, when you raise your [00:11:00] visibility, in a way that makes people go, Oh, he executed that script flawlessly, but more importantly, wow, I really understand.

I got a sense of who this person is. That's the two great tastes that taste great together. Now, I know that a lot of folks who might be listening who are, you know, founders or new executives might not have moments where they're having to do a, you know, an 11 minute super tightly scripted product launch, product demo, high performance, sort of, You know, uh, in the round, big fancy speaking moment, but the idea still applies that leaders and founders are successful when they can tell the great story they need to tell about their product, about their venture, but they also can do it in a way where they have a distinct voice that people see that this leader has a point of view in the world, has a presence in the world, and they're lending their voice to their venture in a way that makes them both fly.

Does

Craig Rosenberg: Amazing.

Dia Bondi: that answer your question, Craig?

Craig Rosenberg: Yeah, what was the unlock for him? where [00:12:00] did, how did you, in a couple weeks you got

him to where, like, where he slayed it.

Dia Bondi: Yeah, the short answer is

But, um,

Craig Rosenberg: setup to everyone who's listening. I was

actually just,

Matt Amundson: heh.

Dia Bondi: no, um,

What Is Founder Unrest & When Does It Show Up?
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Dia Bondi: there's a point in a lot of founders lives, I talked a little bit about this in our, in our short brown bag that we did with your team. We talked about like founder unrest, which is this stage, or leader unrest, this stage where like all of a sudden founders and leaders are like having product marketers write their talking points for them at product launches, where they're, they're going into sales conversations or founder led sales conversations where they have their team with them and their team prepared sort of the arc of the product demo.

Like they're not the ones doing everything themselves in their own words, right? And that's a struggle and a necessary a necessary role to play where you let everyone, you let your teams do what they do best, um, and then bring, you know, the, the stories that need to be told in [00:13:00] the world to you as a founder, and then for you to be able to speak them in a way that's aligned to who you actually are.

Like, so, so Craig, to answer your question, like, The unlock is putting the script down for a little bit and not worrying about like, Oh my God, my team wrote this. It doesn't sound at all like me. Oh no. How do I change the script? So it sounds more like you, you know, more like me is to put it down and first ask the question, okay, who are you?

Like, what are you actually bringing to the table? What are your unique points of view in the world around this domain? What is your role in the world that you see that you're bringing into every single engagement into the, and I'm not talking about your job. I'm talking like, are you a pioneer? Are you a rebel?

Are you a systems person? Are you like, how do you, how do you think about what you bring to the table no matter what you're working on? And we get, we have a, I have a way to like articulate that for a founder. Then we look at the script and go, okay, where are there opportunities for us to tell a unique story that brings that to life?

Where is an [00:14:00] opportunity for us to help you introduce yourself to the room in a way that is aligned to who you actually are? Because every script that's written is not completely word for word tight. We want to find the way where the places where those two things intersect and putting the script down for a little while first is the way to do it.

Craig Rosenberg: that. Um, the, uh, so one of the first, all right, hold on, I got to ask the big question, but one thing that I thought, because we did this in the brown bag too, all right, so now I've changed my mind. I want to talk about this. The, one of the things, thanks man, I appreciate it. One of the things I thought was cool in the brown bag that was hard was this idea of figuring out who you are.

It sounds so, you

know what I mean? But like,

Dia Bondi: I know it sounds so mushy,

Craig Rosenberg: it changed, it helped. Like, and then we did some other exercises and I was like, I had this thing where I was like in, like thinking about like, who am I, um, you know, and, and, and I think, you know, as you were talking about that [00:15:00] story there, I'm like, I'm sure one of the big things was like, well, who do you know, who are you or who do you want to be?

And, and, and sort of thinking about that. Cause I had that experience where I was like, Wow, like you do, you know what I mean? Like, and then once from there

Dia Bondi: Yeah.

Craig Rosenberg: that,

right?

Dia Bondi: Yeah. And, and it's kind of funny. I mean, you know,

How Founders can Find Their Own Voice & Unlock Their Origin Story
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Dia Bondi: I say. in the world that like I help leaders and founders find their voice and that's not actually what I Have always thought of what I do is but founders and leaders after they work with me They're like, oh my god, I I found my voice again feels super mushy right and what you're pointing to like Who am I?

Um, a little distinction in the work that I do is that I'm actually not as interested in who you want to be. I'm interested in who you actually are. So you, you, people think about like, finding your voice as if it's some mystery that's lost somewhere. And you need to, you know, you need to uncover it.

Craig Rosenberg: a movie [00:16:00] script on that where he's trying, they went through the jungles of the Amazon trying to find their voice. Yeah, I get it.

We get it.

Yeah

Matt Amundson: I'm still in development hell

Dia Bondi: wondering, like, so have they been greenlit or what, man? When do I get to see them?

Matt Amundson: And then I got the Netflix deal. We'll, we'll

Dia Bondi: Okay. All right. I'll keep my ears,

my ears open. So I, we specifically did that exercise where we identify provenance, what I call provenance, which is like your origin story, right? Not, not like, not in terms of like, You know, so many founders and leaders are like, Oh, let me introduce myself.

And then they just take you through a march through time. Like for, you know, I graduated MIT and I spent six years at McKinsey and then I launched these two products and generated this. It's like, it's just a march through your badgable events, right? And it's fine. It's fine. And it's bad. Tells me nothing about who you are, really.

Because everybody else went to MIT, man. We all worked at McKinsey for 10 years. Like, [00:17:00] I mean, not really, but everyone is, like, at a certain level, everyone does awesome stuff. We don't doubt you do awesome stuff. So, the exercise was around, like, identifying what your core drivers were that led you to do all that work.

And then when you can share with us who you are, like, here's what drives me. And that's what led me to do all this stuff. It's a great way of building context. The context that all of those accomplishments, um, you know, came out of. So we get, we get like what you did, but also why you did it and who you are a little bit.

Now, I will say, um, see Craig, he asked me these questions. I got too much to say about it. Um, the, the thing that's fun about this is that it's not inventing anything. All of the ways that I work, when I ask like, who are you? We go back into your own past, your own recent history. It's all harvested from your actual experience.[00:18:00]

It's all things that are resonant and true. You can point to and go, yeah, that's totally me. Exactly. And, and they are, they are very real. They are a little bit aspirational because we're not always there. Always at our highest and best, you know, we're not always operating at our optimal, but we draw on that part of your experience so we can just name and claim what you already are.

We're not creating something like, in the future I want to be.

Matt Amundson: So, so I have a question when I think a lot of people struggle with When you ask them who they are them just kind of not rifling off their resume, you know I was here. I sold this company to this company. I was here. I took something public That tends to be I think what people People think

other people want to hear, right?

Those are your sort of the, the, you know, the, the, the epaulets and the badges on your, on your uniform, right? They're, they're, they're what you get for, for, for being so successful. So

Dia Bondi: I call them, yeah.

Matt Amundson: yeah. How do you get away from that and [00:19:00] into more of what you're talking about? And sort of use that story, I guess, instead of being a, a list of bullets to be something that

feels more like a narrative and it's more compelling.

Dia Bondi: love it that you use the word narrative because I think about all of this as like, Your leadership narrative and to be fair, you know when I start with well I ask the question like who are you when I work with people? I don't really I'm asking that to myself as to how it shows up in the conversation because it's too big and Mysterious of a question.

I instead walk people through exercises where they go. Oh my god, that's so me I've never said it like that before but that's so me

Matt Amundson: Yeah.

Dia Bondi: So I will say number one. It's about making a decision To show yourself in that way,

Matt Amundson: Mm

Dia Bondi: know, you just have to decide. I'm not, I don't want to be in the business of transactional communication anymore, where like, I show you my badges and you approve, you know, I want to be in, I want to be in the business of like, let me, let me show you [00:20:00] something that is, you know, important to me, about me, that helps us connect on a human level.

And then, um, and then you're going to see those badgable events as just like, Oh, that makes so much sense. You graduated from MIT and then did T. J. It's more like just evidence at that point. You know, of who you are. So, one, it's a decision. Like, there is also a moment in every leader or founder's journey where they just have to recognize that powerful communication isn't just about being skillful.

It's about making a choice to, it's about making a choice to recognize that your leadership voice is a, is a strategic tool for you.

To make,

Matt Amundson: So, yeah, my next question was going to be what,

Why Understanding How To Tell Your Origin Story Matters
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Matt Amundson: what does that then unlock, right? Like how does that change your perception amongst peers, amongst potential investors, amongst people that you might be selling your product to, or

just overall people that you're trying to influence?

Dia Bondi: selfishly for the, for the client, for, you [00:21:00] know, for the founder or leader I'm working with, they get to, they get to get that, that elusive thing everyone wants more of,

which I don't like to deal in very much, but it is an outcome, which is confidence.

Matt Amundson: hmm.

Dia Bondi: Period. Like, founders are always going into conversations that are bigger than their britches.

That's kind of like a job requirement. So they, they get some confidence because they sort of like go, Oh, that's so me. They can go into something going, I'm going to tell this story because it is so me and I know exactly why I'm telling it. So there's a confidence level there. Now, what that means in terms of business is.

It could show up in a lot of different ways. So I'm going to give you two examples. Um, I had, I think I shared this one in our workshop, Craig, so sorry you have to hear it again. But, um, one of my clients, Chatham House Rules, by the way, everybody, um, I had a client who was very young looking and also all of her [00:22:00] advisors told her regularly, like, You need to tell your founder story.

You need to origin story more. And she was like, it's so gross because it just felt, to her, she was like, it feels like I'm bragging. It feels so weird. And you know, I just don't like it. And so every time I start to describe all this stuff that looks fancy to other people that, you know, everybody in my world tells me I should, you know, Give myself more credit for.

I just stop myself because it feels so gross. And to her, she's like, of course I did fill in the blank. Of course I did all those things because it was just what I wanted to do. What's the biggie, you know?

Meanwhile, she's suffering because she's looking chronically 12 years

old. Um, and she's not. And she's amazing, you know?

So, she's amazing.

Craig Rosenberg: over that top on

that one. I like it Damn!

Matt Amundson: yeah, I like it.

Dia Bondi: so for her, like her provenance story, Making a decision to share a little bit more about who she was gave her a more [00:23:00] contextualized version of being able to tell her story and brag on herself, which made the people that would perceive her as young as an inexperienced, it gave her a way to blow their minds.

And when she blows their minds, they then shift their perspective and go, wait, there's something here. Tell me more about what you're building.

Craig Rosenberg: Yeah,

Dia Bondi: So for her, it was a way to not get so written

off.

Craig Rosenberg: that's a good

Matt Amundson: Yeah,

Dia Bondi: we called those depth charges. We called those depth charges that she could drop some of her braggables as a very young looking, you know, entrepreneur.

And people would go, I'm sorry, what? You know, they, they just kind of shifted the ocean floor for them a little bit like, you know, so. So for her that's about, here's another example. Do you want another one?

Matt Amundson: Yeah!

Dia Bondi: have a client who's, uh, who was going into conversations with a potential, I have to anonymize this, with a potential partner slash fellow traveler and his default like so many founders [00:24:00] was to go in With like i'm gonna bring my pitch deck because you know, it has a product demo in there, you know Talks about the team like it's just that's they're living in their pitch decks forever, right?

And I was like no, so we did Part of what I think of developing a leadership narrative called point of view and playbook to identify really What do you talk about in the world outside of your venture? Like what subject do you care about? we I we nailed that for him and He realized like oh, that's actually the story I need to go in because I needed to go in not as with my pitch deck which says implicitly I am pitching you because you have something that I want and I'm doing my darndest to help you want what I have versus leave my pitch deck behind. Craig, you're laughing. What's the

smile?

Craig Rosenberg: I just, I love your stories. They're just awesome.

And I also did a middle finger emoji to someone in the office who's never [00:25:00] received one and I'm

just enjoying that. Is that bad?

Dia Bondi: Are you enjoying

Matt Amundson: Jesus.

Dia Bondi: You got the right outfit for it.

Craig Rosenberg: Go ahead, Dia. I

Dia Bondi: So instead, they left their pitch deck behind and went in to have a CEO to CEO conversation about the future of the domain and what he saw was most important as they built out the future of their, of their product portfolio. Not, like, leave the pitch deck behind because they needed to come in on equal power ground So when you articulate that for yourself, that means you're shifting the nature and the power dynamics of the conversations you're having.

So that answers the question. Another answer to the like, what do you get? What does it unlock for you?

Matt Amundson: Yeah, yeah. I feel like anytime someone can go in and tell, like, a great story Without a deck, without, you know, sort of visual support behind them. Um, those are the things that really rock your world. You know what I mean? Those are the things where you're like,

wow, like that is an incredible story.

Dia Bondi: that this founder had done all his raises, Without a deck. Meaning [00:26:00] he'd sent the deck ahead of time, and then he just had a conversation. But my point is, it's still the same damn story. Well, let me explain to you what problem we're solving in the, in the world. Let me, you know, here are the ways we're doing it.

Here's what our,

whatever,

you know.

Craig Rosenberg: I have two, two

things. Well, and I have a

very tactical question.

Matt Amundson: Do you actually have two this time? Cause you didn't land the plane the first

time.

Craig Rosenberg: I not?

Matt Amundson: You didn't land the plane. You had two fun facts. You only got

through one.

Dia Bondi: Maybe I'm too old to say this, but I feel like I'm in the middle of an Odd Couple episode. Do you remember that

Matt Amundson: No, this, that's every

Craig Rosenberg: That is a great show. Uh, in honest,

Dia Bondi: The

Craig Rosenberg: got to

Matt Amundson: Yeah.

Craig Rosenberg: with, yeah. Like,

um, I love that show.

Matt Amundson: Craig is such a Felix Leiter.

Dia Bondi: that show is ripe

for a redo. Like, I'm not too hot on the, on all the redos that are happening right now in Hollywood and beyond, but like, I might, I might get down with a little Odd Couple, you know, revisit.

I know. Oh,

Craig Rosenberg: The, the, it's timeless.

Matt Amundson: Yeah, a big part of the inspiration

for this

show

Craig Rosenberg: the way, Matt, maybe you pick up that instead of the Ultimate Frisbee show you [00:27:00] want to go on Netflix. Just to say it. I mean, it's just a thing. But okay, so I didn't land the plane last time. All right. So one is, just a point to make, which is Matt and I have, you know, uh, we work with a lot of, you know, young companies, right?

I'm at a venture firm that does series A investing. Matt actually did executive and residence work for me for like eight months and then he advises folks on the side. And we both, uh, Spent a lot of time, I'd say this last year, Matt, like with the founder. The founder is so important and we've done some shows about how they write and how they do LinkedIn and how they play.

This is about like, this is like how you could, not just how you communicate, but how you puff your, like how you, Like, this is the ultimate element of founder brand that I, we hadn't talked about. So I just want to say, well, as you were talking, I was thinking about that. I'm like, cause you know, Matt's a CMO and like.

He talks about founder [00:28:00] brand all the time with folks and like, you know, as you were talking, I'm like, this is like a key part of founder brand is like, and we need to

win and to differentiate today. This world is so crowded and we're in tech. Like, we need the founder to reach people. Trusted superstar status as fast as possible and how they, you know, it's not, it's one thing to be like, Ooh, I, you know, my PR person got me in front of whatever show there we have to, we, yeah, we have to, uh, think about like, uh, the world of Dia here and how you communicate.

And that's big part of like, that's a differentiator. That's like key to what,

you know, a guy like Matt is going to try to do when he's putting together his plan to build the brand.

Dia Bondi: you're so spot on around the, the founder. I think of founder voice as something you lend to your venture. You're not just a bullhorn for your venture, you know? And, and, and when you can kind of let yourself distinguish [00:29:00] yourself from your venture, but then power your venture with your voice, like, that's really, that's really powerful.

And so I have this four part framework, the stuff we're talking about, four part framework, that helps founders figure out what matters to them, what, what they, Like what they're building, but what they're really building. I'm, you know, what their origin story is in a way that helps people contextualize all their accomplishments and make them go, Oh, I see why you're working on this.

It's, it's, and when I think founders spend time building the foundation of their leadership narrative, it's, Um, as part of an effort to develop their founder brand. Then when they have PR leaders or PR folks working with them to help them, put them on the road for their first product launch or whatever, they've got substance underneath these conversations.

I don't care that you got booked into 25 podcasts if what you're talking about is

just anemic.

Craig Rosenberg: By the way, did you train Howard Schultz, the, isn't that his name? The guy who runs Starbucks?[00:30:00]

Dia Bondi: No,

Craig Rosenberg: to his pod on Acquired, and like, um, dude, he follows all your rules. He talks about growing up in the, In the projects and like he talks about the origin story is so core and you're just sitting there you're just gripped and you can it influences like you can see what he's talking about he's like look I you know he's talking about employees like look I grew up in the projects and I grew up ashamed.

You know, my, my dad was, uh, yeah, I forget what he was. And like, he's like, you know, and he felt

ashamed and like, I, you know,

Dia Bondi: But it's, it's not the accomplishments that stand out for you. What I'm hearing you say is that it's his experience talking about what drove him is what's important. And knowing what drives people, that's what makes you connect with them. And that's why that origin story, not in terms of braggable and badgables, but the context in which your braggables and badgables happened and what, what, you know, [00:31:00] What sort of drove them to occur is what is so interesting about an

individual

founder.

Craig Rosenberg: All right. Ready? Here's number two. Very tactical.

Dump the Live Demos from Your Presentations
---

Craig Rosenberg: Why for the love of God, Matt and Dia, do we, do CEOs, founders, presenters still try to do demos at their big events on stage? It. is a 75 percent failure rate. Is that true or not? Am I

crazy?

Dia Bondi: Oh, I work with clients that they've got a no fail approach.

Craig Rosenberg: What do you mean?

Dia Bondi: The demos are not live. They're

recorded. They the live demos are, you're very right, they're dangerous. They're risky. They have to like, they make a mess, but I don't know. I mean, what are your thoughts? What are your thoughts, Matt? Like, why do people do that?

Why do we still do that?

Matt Amundson: Uh, cause they think it's the right thing, but just watching, uh, watching it blue screen in front a live audience is, I mean, it's It's, it always breaks, uh, and it's always so [00:32:00] disappointing to see it happen, but

also awesome.

Craig Rosenberg: Actually the reaction the presenter, that's a good tell for what we got, how they treat their employees too.

Uh, you know, I got it.

Matt Amundson: Yeah.

Dia Bondi: right. Did they blow somebody up right there into the mic or not? A hundred percent.

Matt Amundson: I told you, Dave, this wouldn't work!

Dia Bondi: I have to do everything myself around

here

Craig Rosenberg: You've got to do the pre-recorded Yeah, if in, in step, I mean, you

just have to.

Dia Bondi: You do, and it's, look, the the point is, you know, it's better, it's better for you. I think it's better to have a pre, people want to see it live. Oh, we got to do it live. it Shows the power of it. I'm like, you know what? Give us a, give us a prerecorded. demo of it with a really nice voice over that you're maybe even doing live and then invite people to go touch and play with it at booth somewhere.

Like, then they're getting, you're having a more meaningful conversation. You might be converting those conversations into real customer conversations where people can, you know, it's way less of a deal for it to blue screen, you know, when you're all standing around a [00:33:00] demo help desk and go like, Oh, actually that happens and here's why.

Put context around why something might crash. Like, yeah, it's, it feels, and here's the thing. These big stage moments are very expensive.

Craig Rosenberg: absolutely.

Wait, How Expensive are All-Hands Meetings?
---

Dia Bondi: Can we talk about expensive meetings for a second for founders and

Matt Amundson: Yeah. Yeah.

Dia Bondi: So one of the things that really bugs me. Is it terrible all

Craig Rosenberg: Ooh, let's go.

What do we got?

What do we got?

Yeah, where, like,

Matt Amundson: let's

double click.

Craig Rosenberg: let's unpack this. Hold on. Let us use all the tech phrases. Let's unpack this. We'll work. Let's workshop

this.

That yeah

Dia Bondi: Let's

Matt Amundson: Yeah,

I'd like to circle back to

Dia Bondi: Yeah. I know we put a pin in it

last week. I think it's time that

we,

Matt Amundson: Yeah.

Craig Rosenberg: right,

go for it go for it

Dia Bondi: so

everybody, everybody listen, there is a moment where your sort of weekly, two things where your weekly meetings that used to be you and all your product, you know, [00:34:00] product folks sitting around tables, checking in on stuff, doing a quick standup turns into 65, 85. 150, 200 people on a call every Friday at one o'clock, okay, and there's two things that a founder needs to notice.

When is time for you to stop being the emcee and it's time for you to show up as a CEO?

Matt Amundson: Mm hmm.

Dia Bondi: You let your chief of staff, you, and this might be controversial, I'd be curious, um, tell us in the comments below, um, the, the, the issue around, the issue around aligning the way your voice shows up with the role expectations that you're now.

Grappling with there's a moment at which point your voice needs to remain in a position and be positioned as Authority and a lot of founders struggle against this because they're like, but I'm approachable. I'm like got it But also you need to show up as a CEO your team needs you to show up at the CEO So you find somebody else to run to run people's slides you find somebody [00:35:00] else to be the MC to do all of the Tactical stuff and you show up at the status that matches the role that people need you to play in the world That's number one

Matt Amundson: Mm.

Dia Bondi: No?

Matt Amundson: Oh, 100%.

Dia Bondi: Just, this is part of that founder

unrest stuff I was talking about. That founder unrest when they start to notice like something needs to change but I don't know what it is. I'm showing up as the emcee but my board is telling me and my, now I have an executive team around me. They're kind of like winking at me like I need to have a little more authority around here but I'm still advancing the slides all by myself.

So, um, yeah. So notice when that's happening for you. And then secondly, let's just notice how expensive your all hands are. And are you actually using that time wisely? I work with so many founders who buck against the idea of starting to put some real strategic, a real strategic approach around how they run their all hands.

Not just as like, hey, welcome our new staff people, and let's celebrate some birthdays, and let's play a little internet game together. I get it that virtually it's an [00:36:00] opportunity for everyone to connect, but also this is precious. Precious expensive time where you have the opportunity for your product leads to tell a story about the roadmap where you have folks from your operations Side to talk about what collaboration tools look like how we can move faster together you have so much opportunity to set the context and use that as an alignment tool and And I worked with the founder last year where we were talking about how crappy their all hands were and I was like, let's just calculate.

Let's just, just, let's just what my husband would call butt wing it. Let's just butt wing how much that meeting costs every week.

Craig Rosenberg: by the way butt

wink

Dia Bondi: like that

butt wing, butt wing. He's an operations guy and he loves to like, he loves a good spreadsheet where he just kind of butt wings it and he's like, man, it'd probably be 200, 200 grand.

Um, but we butt winged it and it, you know, we were like, I can't remember, but it was something like, 220, 000 for

that hour.

Craig Rosenberg: that's

Matt Amundson: Mm hmm. Oh,

yeah.

Dia Bondi: So I'm just saying there's a point at which your [00:37:00] leadership voice is really, really critical and very important to be used wisely in the time that you have where you're bringing everyone together. And to recognize that if it's not just a waste of everybody's time, if you put a dollar value against those meetings, I hope you'll surprise yourself.

Craig Rosenberg: that was awesome. And we've got, I just got an alert. I set my timer so I know where we are. We're running out of time and I did not

Matt Amundson: Mm. the big question,

Craig Rosenberg: Matt.

Dia Bondi: Time flies when I'm having fun with

Craig Rosenberg: I've been having a blast. Matt,

I don't, mean, yeah, this is incredible.

let me, let's just dig in with Matt. Let's

put a pin in it. Matt,

Matt Amundson: Yeah, please. Yeah. Go you, have you, has this been awesome for you as well?

Yes.

Yes. Everything you said about everything you said about D has proven

to

Craig Rosenberg: you. I like being valid. Thank you for that validation.

Normally, I don't get it. Yeah, just as a heads up.

Dia Bondi: feels good to be right.

Craig Rosenberg: so

Dia Bondi: My girlfriend always says, do you want to be right or you want to be happy?

[00:38:00] I'm

Craig Rosenberg: yeah, being right makes

me happy.

Matt Amundson: being

right makes me happy.

Craig Rosenberg: I, uh, I gotta say that. Yeah, man. That's, that, that seems like a question where I want both. That's an and. Um, all right. So the

big question we ask everyone is, um, um, you know,

Two Big Misconceptions about Communication
---

Craig Rosenberg: what's something that the market, uh, thinks that they're doing right? Could be anything.

Approach, methodology, tactics, et cetera. And they're actually wrong. And, you know, what is that and what should they do

differently? How would you answer that?

Oh, well, hold on. Dee, I just want to make clear that you can give us two, but you have to, quote unquote, land the

plane. Um, for Matt, yeah, it's

very important. He's, he just texted me, make sure she

lands the plane.

Dia Bondi: Numero uno. I wrote this book right here. See that? It's called Ask Like an Auctioneer. How to Ask for More and Get It.

It's a, it's a crazy book and a TEDx, and it's about helping people. ask for more and get it using everything I learned from my impact hobby of fundraising auctioneering for women led nonprofits that I [00:39:00] picked up in my 40s like just for fun and I was learning a lot and I put it in a book.

Anyway, so the one thing people do they think doing right is that they design their asks in order to get a yes. How much do you think I can get? Well I don't know I'm gonna ask for that and then when they get a yes they're excited about it. The, the, how we should be doing it. is designing asks in order to get a no and then negotiate down and it will yield more.

That's one. Don't believe me? Watch

my TED talk and the

Craig Rosenberg: Yeah. I love that one. And by the way, for salespeople, watch

that. Yeah. Love that.

Yes.

Dia Bondi: you. Thank you. Okay. So that's number one. Number two is assuming that being compelling as a communicator is about skill, skill and polish. Thinking about communications as a skill acquisition And that's it. When it is about taking on your own leadership communications as your [00:40:00] strategic tool in your leadership, so, and a strike point for your leadership so that you can have more impact on the audiences that matter to

you.

Craig Rosenberg: love that.

Dia Bondi: We just assume, we assume communications is about skills and it's about so

much more.

Craig Rosenberg: So, by the way, I'm unpolished. Is

that bad?

Dia Bondi: No, it's part of your, I'll talk about brand. This is, this is actually an excellent point. You know, um, it is. Some of the most compelling communicators I've worked with, um, are Introverts are, uh, quiet and subtle, but are extremely compelling. Are, you know, silly and approachable, but have big ideas that contrast their approachability.

They are, um, they are not the, they are not the motivational speaker archetype that people put in their minds when they think about being a compelling communicator.

Craig Rosenberg: Love that. Matt, do you think I'm polished [00:41:00] or?

Matt Amundson: Yeah.

Craig Rosenberg: Alright, good. But you're right, I thought when she was talking about the silly person, that was me. But, uh, yeah. No, that's

interesting.

Matt Amundson: I don't think you're, I don't think you're silly. I think that you're no, I think that you're unpolished and a lot of fun to be around and that makes you very approachable, especially like you were working as a analyst, which means that you should Normally, and with all due respect to analysts, be the least compelling person in the room.

And now you work at a venture fund. And so like, you should be a little bit scary and you're not right. So like you create this kind of warm entry point at Topo, or you created this warm entry point at Topo. And now you do that at, at, at scale, which I think is perfect because you want the portfolio

companies to engage with you.

And sometimes they can be a little intimidated.

Dia Bondi: This is, this is what my son

would call, facts.

Craig Rosenberg: Yes!

That's right, another one! [00:42:00] Let's put that one in, Sam! I love when people do, it's all the young folks. I love when they drop that and they just say

facts.

I just, that just

Dia Bondi: oh,

facts.

Craig Rosenberg: Honestly.

Dia Bondi: So. Just to add to that, like, the, you know, I think it's not about being one way or another, it's about taking who we authentically are and then expanding our range of how we show up in different situations so that when we recognize we need to bring more authority to the moment, We can do that when we need to bring more warmth and approachability.

We can do that when we can make choices in content about the types of stories we tell to set up a product, you know, a product walkthrough or to introduce ourselves to the world, like being sensitive to the context of the moment and then just growing range without having to abandon ourselves at the same

time.

Craig Rosenberg: Damn.

Good Oh lord.

Hey, I got one for you guys. I just got to get out before we get out. Based on everything [00:43:00] we've heard today, and Sam, you can jump in too, although your sound, even though you're our producer, can sometimes be ridiculous. No

offense, but yes, that was, Oh, it worked great today.

You're

good. Okay, so, uh, So

because I brought up, as I was, as Dio was talking, and I, and I did the brown bag too, so I'm like, and I have the book and all

that kind of stuff, so I'm,

Dia Bondi: Showed up late, but he

Craig Rosenberg: that's true, that was rude.

Yeah,

traffic was bad.

Um, I do, I like to make an entrance. I came in

hot too, you gotta admit. I, I was like, I

pretended like there was nothing wrong.

I learned that from

Dia Bondi: It was great. I was, oh, there he is. Ooh, things feel different now.

Examples of Leaders with Great Perspectives & Well-Developed Voices
---

Craig Rosenberg: So, I just told you, like, based on everything Dia told me, like, I, I just, I literally thought of, uh, Starbucks founder and CEO Howard Schultz. Like, he, and if you've ever seen him speak, he does no scripts. Um, Uh, no, no visuals. He just comes from the heart and like it's [00:44:00] because like what Dio was talking about like that or he's just embraced the origin story and who he is and it just comes out and everything.

So like who would you like who's a founder based on everything you guys heard or CEO that that you think is one of the best communicators out there with some of the fundamentals we just learned today.

Sam, you opened your

mouth. all you,

Dia Bondi: Matt.

Craig Rosenberg: his mouth, though. Like,

Sam Guertin: I did. Fair enough. Uh, I'll say, uh, Jensen Huang, um, from NVIDIA, I think does a really good job of being himself and letting that You know, who he is come through. He did a really good interview with the Acquired podcast as well. Um,

and I think that, with one of the earlier points about not being polished, Um, I think not being polished is also how you stand out from AI more. And, make a bigger,

bigger impact there.

Craig Rosenberg: That's

cool. See, Sam? That was [00:45:00] great. And I, I think, Dia, one of the things that, like, from when you do embrace, like, who you are, and the, the, the provenance and, and these things, like, you, the authenticity comes out in a way. That is, I mean, it's like, you're basically blasting authenticity when you do that, because you're just really real to yourself.

And I think that's, as Sam was talking, I'm like, that guy could come out and say anything right now. I mean, like, but you know, he's, because of that way that he communicates, he comes off as authentic, um, considering he's basically supporting, um, you know, Terminator 5, uh, you know, coming out. And so that, that's a cool, that's a

Great example. Sam.

Dia Bondi: Great example. And I'll just say that, you know, for founders who might be listening, who are getting feedback from, you know, their board, their executive team, their chiefs of staff, you know, folks in their peers in their groups that just say, Hey man, just be authentic. And they feel like, what does that mean?

You're not alone like that. You [00:46:00] get that feedback and it does not help. It does not help. So spending time developing your unique, you know, point of view in the world, investing in your leadership narrative will help answer the question, how do I be more authentic? Um, because you'll have an actual strategy in place for yourself to help you come forward.

Craig Rosenberg: Awesome. All right, Matt. What do you got?

Matt Amundson: Well, are we talking inside the bubble or are we talking outside the bubble?

Craig Rosenberg: Uh,

Matt Amundson: Like inside the Silicon Valley it could be any, I mean, I use Starbucks. I mean, was that, that's,

Craig Rosenberg: that was

outside the, I came out of the, what are you

Matt Amundson: I mean, I, I always,

Craig Rosenberg: outside the bubble. Jeez. Yeah. Let's go.

Matt Amundson: well, that was your example. And

then you asked us for our own examples. It is what it is.

Dia Bondi: You know what, Matt, whatever your answer is, we're gonna, we're

gonna find you right. We're going to support you. So it's

Matt Amundson: all right. Well, I love, I love Nick cause, uh, whenever Nick Mehta is presenting, like it always It's just, he's, he [00:47:00] just does it so well for like a sort of inside the valley. Like they, you know, not this gigantic global organization, but you know, something that's like, you know, what I would call midsize business.

And I, he, he's such a great presenter. He's so compelling. Both in appearance and the way he presents the decks that he uses. And he does use decks, but like, it's, it's not a PowerPoint. It's, you know, it's, it's incredible though. It's like a little show that

he

Craig Rosenberg: That's a, that's a great

Matt Amundson: Um, so, so he's my

inside.

Craig Rosenberg: And by the way, he's got two mentions on the show and he hasn't, I,

Nick, we've had two mentions on the show. Oh, Bro, we need a share on that. Anyway, okay. That's a, that is actually a really good one. Like, his outfits even are just like, it's, it feels like he really, he keeps evolving into like Dia's ideal, right?

Because like, his kicks, remember at the go to market summit two years ago? Like, what's up with that? Like glitter and shit? Like,

it was [00:48:00] nuts, man.

Matt Amundson: But it worked, it wasn't, it was like over the top, but it wasn't, I don't know how you skate that line. It's

just, he does it so

well.

Craig Rosenberg: the bubble?

Matt Amundson: Um, who was that Goldman Sachs CEO that was DJing all the time? I

just,

Craig Rosenberg: That's authentic. What was his name?

Matt Amundson: Dave, Dave, Dave Solomon, right?

Craig Rosenberg: That's,

Matt Amundson: You know, just like in the XS era, this guy's just like DJing at nightclubs and then just being the CEO of Goldman Sachs by day.

It was

amazing.

Craig Rosenberg: love that. All right, DIA, who's, who's yours?

One of your clients?

Dia Bondi: I don't know. I kind of want to plead the fifth cause I,

I, um, um,

Matt Amundson: Oh yeah. All your, all your

clients.

Craig Rosenberg: thou, 8,000 coaching sessions by Dia, by the

way.

Dia Bondi: I am so old at this point, but I will say that like, I love, um, I love a good sneak attack, [00:49:00] meaning I love it. I love it when a founder shows up in a way that you don't expect. And I'm not talking about gimmicks and, you know, glitter and DJing. I'm talking about when you, your first experience maybe or assumption of them is one way and they.

Just end up blowing your minds like I love that and I and that's not about being Demonstrative or really, you know taking up space in the room. It's so much more about you know The example I gave earlier about the client who you know was perceived as being very young But was actually very experienced and and the way that she could drop depth charges in the room that

made us go I'm sorry, what

love that.

Craig Rosenberg: See, that's a, I mean, that was a, that was a great answer right there. Yeah, so alright, by the way, well, no, alright, I can't,

Craig Compliments Sam for Displaying Basic Competence
---

Craig Rosenberg: I can't send us down another rabbit hole. But let's just all compliment Sam. Sam, great

job.

was

[00:50:00] in.

Dia Bondi: great

Matt Amundson: Really great,

job, Sam.

Craig Rosenberg: man. I'm proud of you.

Um,

Sam Guertin: Thank you,

Matt Amundson: your

polo

Dia Bondi: feel

Craig Rosenberg: yeah. You're looking good, kid. Um, so that,

Wrapping Up
---

Craig Rosenberg: so by the way, I called Matt, I go, dude, we're about to have a show we haven't had before and you deliver that idea and I'm just glad,

yeah, it is true.

That was, uh, so interesting. I just feel like, man, like a lot, I, once again, I sort of leave this going, I can do better. This can help so many other people like, and like, uh, it's, it's like, uh, You're a CEO, founder, coach, but in many ways, this is like career coach stuff.

Like anybody who's building their career should go through the process of their provenance and their, you know, their, you know, the backstory and how that, who they, you know, who they are today, uh, changes how you interview, how you interact with your managers, how you interact with your team. And I just think that's really cool.

And that's one of the reasons [00:51:00] why I just, I mean, I think you're awesome. I'm so glad we had you on the

show.

Dia Bondi: Thanks for having me. I have to say I'm rooting for all the founders who are listening today. Just rooting for you hardcore because I, I haven't done it, but I, you know, witness how difficult it is for all of you to level up as you go through your journey and face massive rejection constantly and products that are breaking and teams that are crumbling and bringing new talent in and, you know, phasing old, old, you know, processes out.

It's a struggle. And, um, And I just have a lot of respect for founders and anything I can do to help them be successful and stay in their own skin while they're doing it, um, feels like a win to

me.

Craig Rosenberg: Bam. Yeah, that's the transaction. That, that was killer.

All right. You know what, Dia, that was awesome. Thank

you so much

[00:52:00]